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Posted by: Flavius Aetius I heard about a Chalons 451 AD Title being announced. As the author of a (yet to be published) book on the battle, I'm interested if anyone knows more about it?
Posted on: 29/08/2014 21:54:00

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Posted by: Flavius Aetius
Total Posts: 1
Joined Date: Friday, 29 August 2014
Nevermind, found the blog post.
Posted on: 29/08/2014 22:23:00
Posted by: achim
Total Posts: 40
Joined Date: Wednesday, 11 September 2013
and that even as your pen namesake won the battle, Flavius Aetius?



sorry, little joke at the side, hope you forgive me!!



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actually, I "fear" this Title! I will buy it of course, but this is a Battle with many diffrent interpretations! There are, at the beginning, sevarl diffent opinions on WHERE the Battle was fought, and then, of course, HOW it was fought! It is by no means clear how the Troops deployed, who was precisely in the center, right and left and what was the sequence of the whole fighting....!!



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it is not, as for instance with the "saltus Teuroburgensis" that new evidence has come to light recently, that would help to clarify things!



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even the ourcome is far less certain then legends have it!



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let us see what the autor makes of it! I hope he considers (and weigh's) the discussions still waged by historians on this momentous battel!
Posted on: 30/08/2014 01:00:00
Posted by: achim
Total Posts: 40
Joined Date: Wednesday, 11 September 2013
this time, hopefully with paragrafs....





and that even as your pen namesake won the battle, Flavius Aetius?

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sorry, little joke at the side, hope you forgive me!!



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..



actually, I "fear" this Title! I will buy it of course, but this is a Battle with many diffrent interpretations! There are, at the beginning, sevarl diffent opinions on WHERE the Battle was fought, and then, of course, HOW it was fought! It is by no means clear how the Troops deployed, who was precisely in the center, right and left and what was the sequence of the whole fighting....!!



..



..



it is not, as for instance with the "saltus Teuroburgensis" that new evidence has come to light recently, that would help to clarify things!



..



..



even the ourcome is far less certain then legends have it!



..



..



let us see what the autor makes of it! I hope he considers (and weigh's) the discussions still waged by historians on this momentous battel!
Posted on: 30/08/2014 01:01:00
Posted by: Amaral
Total Posts: 200
Joined Date: Friday, 8 March 2013
Hi there, achim, glad to see you back. I first learned about this battle form the movie "Attila". A documentary made presentation of the battle using video game. Do you approve it? Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7HnELFSW84
Posted on: 30/08/2014 05:21:00
Posted by: Amaral
Total Posts: 200
Joined Date: Friday, 8 March 2013
Hi there, achim, glad to see you back. I first learned about this battle form the movie "Attila". A documentary made presentation of the battle using video game. Do you approve it? Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7HnELFSW84
Posted on: 30/08/2014 05:21:00
Posted by: Hugo Rodrigues
Total Posts: 5
Joined Date: Monday, 13 December 2010
I'd place a Vegas bet this booklet will consist mostly of padding. The biography of Aetius by Ian Hughes published by Pen & Sword includes a chapter on the battle - about 12 pp., including several monochrome sketch maps and lengthy transcriptions from the extant literary sources. Curious to see how Osprey stretched the (very little, very vague) available material about this campaign into a 96 pp. booklet.
Posted on: 31/08/2014 00:44:00
Posted by: W├╝rttemberger
Total Posts: 1
Joined Date: Wednesday, 2 September 2009
i have pretty much the same concerns. that osprey allowed the hun warrior title to be released should raise a red flag.
Posted on: 31/08/2014 14:28:00
Posted by: MFalk
Total Posts:
Joined Date: Tuesday, 17 September 2019
Chalons would be my favourite future Campaign title. I agree that some details of the campaign and battle are hazy, but so where the battle of Tour & Poitiers (Karl Martell vs Arabs) or Mons Graupius, which has been published nonetheless. Great suggestion.
Posted on: 02/09/2014 15:01:00
Posted by: achim
Total Posts: 40
Joined Date: Wednesday, 11 September 2013
@ Amaral! wow,this clip looks interesting! However, it is also 44 minutes long! too much time for me right now! What can be said is, there is very Little Fact known about this Battle! All there is says there was a Battel on the Catalauninan Plains (where precisely they are, is a matter of discussion! "Chalons" is really educated guesswork) with great slaughter and the Huns retreated!



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@Hugo Rodrigues, I have the same book apparently! The Battle decription and maps are a "valliant try"! It is well executed and looks logical...., but it remains a "try"!!

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and precisely this is what I fear with this OspreyTitle! Padding, Guesswork....as we had for example with Mons Graupius and now recenty with Cahrlemagne's Saxon Campaing (however, it must be said, David did a pretty good Job in Describing the general outlines of the Campaign, and did not get stuck too much on the only Engagement of which we have even the slightest decription (Suenteln Hills)!! The Book uses all 3D Maps for this engagement, but other than 3D-Maps, focuses on the general Troop movements...,thus aviding the Quagmire of "maybe" and "perhaps" to some extend)
Posted on: 02/09/2014 17:59:00
Posted by: Hugo Rodrigues
Total Posts: 5
Joined Date: Monday, 13 December 2010
@ achim: the Mons Graupius book actually didn't include that much padding/unfounded guesswork as Duncan Campbell provided lots of archaeological evidence to back up his reconstruction of the campaign. The campaign books on Spartacus and Boudicca on the other hand...
Posted on: 04/09/2014 13:40:00
Posted by: Hugo Rodrigues
Total Posts: 5
Joined Date: Monday, 13 December 2010
BTW I leafed through the Saxony CAM book yesterday and now I'm not so sure if I'll actually buy it. Given my unfathomable ignorance of the time period/events in question, there will be always some new info in there for me, but I just didn't think it worked as a campaign title.
Posted on: 04/09/2014 13:45:00
Posted by: achim
Total Posts: 40
Joined Date: Wednesday, 11 September 2013
Oh yes, Boudicca is actually also my "favourite"! That was a CAM totally wasted! I never got round buying Spartacus though! From what you, and others, said, I havn't missed out on anything....



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To Charlemagne's Campaing against the Saxons..., well, given the scanty sources available, David Nicolle aquitted himself well enough! But it is not a "real Campaign" Book!

Charlemagne's Campaigns against the Saxons were all in some 30 years in the making and in the end pretty repetitive..., with no big battles. only raids, plundering expeditions, some small scale skirmishes...



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let us see what Chalons may bring...., but I doubt the sources will hold up!!
Posted on: 04/09/2014 16:56:00
Posted by: Hugo Rodrigues
Total Posts: 5
Joined Date: Monday, 13 December 2010
@ achim: the campaign book on Boudicca had those neat comic book-style pictures of Boudicca herself by Peter Dennis and that was pretty much it as far as interesting contents was concerned.



The Campaign series as a whole is odd; currently dominated by WW2, but the armed clashes that IMO can actually be squeezed more easily into the rigid 96 pp. format are the classic single-day formation battles between armies using linear tactics of the 18th-19th centuries.



Apologies for the rambling.
Posted on: 04/09/2014 19:46:00
Posted by: achim
Total Posts: 40
Joined Date: Wednesday, 11 September 2013
Rambling or not, Hugo, you are quite right!

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there have been good Ancient CAM Book! Pharsalus comes to mind, Philippi and recently Pylos and Spakteria! It all depends on available soucre material in the end!

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Posted on: 04/09/2014 23:50:00
Posted by: Hugo Rodrigues
Total Posts: 5
Joined Date: Monday, 13 December 2010
I've said at this forum and at the commentary boxes of several Osprey blog posts 72642935235 times before that hobbyists often aren't aware that there is no direct relation between the historical relevance of an ancient battle and the quantity and quality of the literary sources available for it (and literary sources are an essencial starting point for any campaign narrative). Somewhat obscure (or at least not particularly relevant in the "grand historical" sense) battles of the Hellenistic period like say Paraitakene, Gabiene, Sellasia or Mantinea 207 BCE are better covered in the surviving works of ancient historians than much more relevant later battles such as Lugdunum 197, Naissus 269 or (of course) Chalons, for which all the information available can be summed in a 3-4 paragraphs or less.



I know this sounded pedantic and snobbish, but I don't care.



BTW there's still a lot of untapped potential in the ancient (classical) period, but Pen & Sword currently has a big lead over Osprey in that particular department.
Posted on: 05/09/2014 12:32:00
Posted by: Hugo Rodrigues
Total Posts: 5
Joined Date: Monday, 13 December 2010
Forgot to add: I'd place another Vegas bet that one of the campaign books about classical antiquity Osprey will eventually and enthusiastically greenlight and publish will be about Crassus' defeat at Carrhae, despite the generic and nor particularly useful narratives given by the sources available (Plutarch and Dio IIRC), because the "Roman legionary vs Parthian horse archer" matchup will get the Ninja vs Pirate crowd all excited. I suppose they can always pad the book with the much later campaigns of Ventidius Bassus...
Posted on: 05/09/2014 12:46:00
Posted by: WickedMessenger
Total Posts: 10
Joined Date: Wednesday, 22 May 2013
There's even a theory saying Charlemagne didn't even exist. Whatever the credibility of that, the thing is that these were called the Dark Ages for a reason: we know so little about them- our own history! So I hope this book will bring some new insights. Anyway, I'm very curious...
Posted on: 06/09/2014 23:44:00
Posted by: Hugo Rodrigues
Total Posts: 5
Joined Date: Monday, 13 December 2010
For paragraphs...
Posted on: 11/09/2014 16:55:00
Posted by: Hugo Rodrigues
Total Posts: 5
Joined Date: Monday, 13 December 2010
This might be interesting, and probably one of the reasons why this project was greenlighted:



http://www.amazon.fr/La-campagne-dAttila-Gaule-J-C/dp/2917575212/ref=pd_sim_b_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0WZSM6ZD7WJ71XTZQYC6



There's a whole collection of these, mostly on very unusual topics, and they may follow a semi-standardised format. Some of the authors are highly regarded academics (Lebedynsky, Le Bohec...)
Posted on: 11/09/2014 16:58:00
Posted by: achim
Total Posts: 40
Joined Date: Wednesday, 11 September 2013
Interesting Series! Even if my French is quite rusty, i'll buy one, just to see how they are made up! 128 pages..., you can be quite exhaustive at that length!

BUT....I doubt that any French Series would prompt Osprey to greenlight any Book! Target Audiences are too diffrent in my Opini├│n!
Posted on: 11/09/2014 22:20:00

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