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Viewing Topic "Campaign book for Kongo Civil war 1665-1709"
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Posted by: MR HISTORY I have been studying the Kongo Civil war of 1665-1709 (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE WARS FROM 1997-present) It involved kings,African opponents,and The Portuguese. In 1665,the Portuguese defeated the Congolese army at Mbwila in Angola. The War started because the Kongo king died and his son wanted to get rid of the Portuguese,and soon a dispute started.The Portuguese invaded the Kongo in 1665 and in 1670 were defeated at Kitombo. The war dragged on until 1709,when different groups of Kongo Catholics fought at the battle of San Salvador. Many soldiers were sold into the slave trade. (Many people do not know that Africans fighting each other sold their captured enemies into slavery,for example,from 1720-1748,the Dahomey and the Oyo sold prisoners into slavery.) I am sure that there are more sources out there( excluding Wikipedia and other not-so-reliable sites) would anybody here buy this if it were published? P.S. regarding my screen name,(I did not mean to create suspense) I have been tampering aroudn to see which way looks more cool,I like all caps and the 2 was not really important,so I took it out. It is ok,you will get used to it. oh,and if it is a time period specific thing,my posts will go into the corrct forum.
Posted on: 03/04/2013 23:42:00

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Posted by: Railok
Total Posts: 19
Joined Date: Monday, 8 October 2012
Here's the problem with this: It won't sell. It's not about who on this board would buy it, it's about who else out there would buy it. Clearly, this is not a conflict that the Osprey marketing board is throwing themselves over. Second of all, using your standard line " I am sure that there are more sources out there( excluding Wikipedia and other not-so-reliable sites)" is just getting annoying. Even the Wikipedia page seems to take more than half of its reference to its article on the Kongo Civil War from one single book.
Posted on: 03/04/2013 23:57:00
Posted by: Hamilcar
Total Posts: 3
Joined Date: Saturday, 6 April 2013
Love the idea. There would certainly be plenty of scholarship out there beyond what appears on wikipedia. I think people would buy the book. Osprey is sorely lacking in titles involving Africa, beyond Zulus. And yet there were so many other interesting military peoples on the continent; e.g. Dahomey, Kongo, Mali, Great Zimbabwe, Axum, etc. I think the sort of audience who would consider buying this book are those who buy the Zulu books.
Posted on: 04/04/2013 04:36:00
Posted by: WickedMessenger
Total Posts: 10
Joined Date: Wednesday, 22 May 2013
I'm afraid not, Hamilcar. Zulu War fans (can't think of another term!) lose interest as soon as there's no British involved.
Posted on: 04/04/2013 11:55:00
Posted by: Nick Hunter
Total Posts: 55
Joined Date: Wednesday, 8 May 2013
There's actually a particular problem with ospreys covering african history before 1800 - the absense of suitable subjects for the photos / illustrations. I know I've raised this before, but people just don't think about it enough. For european medieval subjects, you have manuscript illustrations, paintings, and surviving artefacts in sufficient quantity. Even for "classical world" subjects, you have stone ruins, vase paintings etc. Even 19th century african and polynesian cultures usually get documented by european explorers, many of whom are trained as draughtsmen, and there is good survival of artefacts. However, what are you going to use in this case? Unless we can answer this, then even assuming there is enough scholarship about the subject to produce a viable book, it's unlikely to be one that will suit the osprey format.
Posted on: 04/04/2013 13:59:00
Posted by: WickedMessenger
Total Posts: 10
Joined Date: Wednesday, 22 May 2013
And then we haven't even mentioned the fact that most of these cultures were illiterate, so there's no written records either.
Posted on: 04/04/2013 14:38:00
Posted by: Nick Hunter
Total Posts: 55
Joined Date: Wednesday, 8 May 2013
In fairness, some written records may survive from at least the portugese participants
Posted on: 04/04/2013 14:58:00
Posted by: Nick Hunter
Total Posts: 55
Joined Date: Wednesday, 8 May 2013
...and the betting on Mr History actually bothering to come back and read these comments?
Posted on: 04/04/2013 15:04:00
Posted by: MTG
Total Posts: 30
Joined Date: Wednesday, 21 December 2011
Low odds. Not when there are more topics to suggest from Wikipedia!
Posted on: 05/04/2013 01:00:00
Posted by: Nick Hunter
Total Posts: 55
Joined Date: Wednesday, 8 May 2013
Eats, shoots and leaves....
Posted on: 05/04/2013 09:53:00
Posted by: WickedMessenger
Total Posts: 10
Joined Date: Wednesday, 22 May 2013
Yep. He's a gorilla fighter!
Posted on: 06/04/2013 00:54:00
Posted by: Nick Hunter
Total Posts: 55
Joined Date: Wednesday, 8 May 2013
Don't Panda to him!
Posted on: 06/04/2013 21:16:00
Posted by: MrHistory 2
Total Posts: 44
Joined Date: Friday, 15 March 2013
Better yet would be a campaign book on Sao Salvador 1781 and men-at-arms on Kongo armies.
Posted on: 14/04/2013 16:13:00
Posted by: Neil Grant
Total Posts: 13
Joined Date: Friday, 27 March 2015
You know, it really doesn't seem that you've addressed the issues raised, eg shortage of illustrations. If they would be a problem for a campaoign series, they would equally be a problem for an MAA
Posted on: 14/04/2013 18:19:00
Posted by: Toussaint Louverture
Total Posts: 7
Joined Date: Wednesday, 17 April 2013
The Kongo civil war? I do not know much about it other than the fact that some veterans served in the Haitian Revolution. I would buy this book if it were published.
Posted on: 15/04/2013 21:16:00

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